[Previous page]...
deal of the discontent which had shewn itself. The conversation
ended with this last topic. It is here stated nearly as much at
length as it really was, the expressions preserved where I could
recollect them, and their substance always faithfully stated.
July 10. 1792. My lre of ---- to the President, directed to
him at Mt Vernon, had not found him there, but came to him here. He
told me of this & that he would take an occasion of speaking with me
on the subject. He did so this day. He began by observing that he
had put it off from day to day because the subject was painful, to
wit his remaining in office which that letter sollicited. He said
that the decln he had made when he quitted his military command of
never again acting in public was sincere. That however when he was
called on to come forward to set the present govmt in motion, it
appeared to him that circumstances were so changed as to justify a
change in his resoln: he was made to believe that in 2 years all
would be well in motion & he might retire. At the end of two years
he found some things still to be done. At the end of the 3d year he
thought it was not worth while to disturb the course of things as in
one year more his office would expire & he was decided then to
retire. Now he was told there would still be danger in it.
Certainly if he thought so, he would conquer his longing for
retirement. But he feared it would be said his former professions of
retirement had been mere affectation, & that he was like other men,
when once in office he could not quit it. He was sensible too of a
decay of his hearing perhaps his other faculties might fall off & he
not be sensible of it. That with respect to the existing causes of
uneasiness, he thought there were suspicions against a particular
party which had been carried a great deal too far, there might be
desires, but he did not believe there were
designs to change the
form of govmt into a monarchy. That there might be a few who wished
it in the higher walks of life, particularly in the great cities but
that the main body of the people in the Eastern states were as
steadily for republicanism as in the Southern. That the pieces
lately published, & particularly in Freneau's paper seemed to have in
view the exciting opposition to the govmt. That this had taken place
in Pennsylve as to the excise law, accdg to informn he had recd from
Genl Hand that they tended to produce a separation of the Union, the
most dreadful of all calamities, and that whatever tended to produce
anarchy, tended of course to produce a resort to monarchical
government. He considered those papers as attacking him directly,
for he must be a fool indeed to swallow the little sugar plumbs here
& there thrown out to him. That in condemning the admn of the govmt
they condemned him, for if they thought there were measures pursued
contrary to his sentiment, they must conceive him too careless to
attend to them or too stupid to understand them. That tho indeed he
had signed many acts which he did not approve in all their parts, yet
he had never put his name to one which he did not think on the whole
was eligible. That as to the bank which had been an act of so much
complaint, until there was some infallible criterion of reason, a
difference of opinion must be tolerated. He did not believe the
discontents extended far from the seat of govmt. He had seen &
spoken with many people in Maryld & Virginia in his late journey. He
found the people contented & happy. He wished however to be better
informed on this head. If the discontent were more extensive than he
supposed, it might be that the desire that he should remain in the
government was not general.
My observns to him tended principally to enforce the topics of
my lre. I will not therefore repeat them except where they produced
observns from him. I said that the two great complaints were that
the national debt was unnecessarily increased, & that it had
furnished the means of corrupting both branches of the legislature.
That he must know & everybody knew there was a considerable squadron
in both whose votes were devoted to the paper & stock-jobbing
interest, that the names of a weighty number were known & several
others suspected on good grounds. That on examining the votes of
these men they would be found uniformly for every treasury measure, &
that as most of these measures had been carried by small majorities
they were carried by these very votes. That therefore it was a cause
of just uneasiness when we saw a legislature legislating for their
own interests in opposition to those of the people. He said not a
word on the corruption of the legislature, but took up the other
point, defended the assumption, & argued that it had not increased
the debt, for that all of it was honest debt. He justified the
excise law, as one of the best laws which could be past, as nobody
would pay the tax who did not chuse to do it. With respect to the
increase of the debt by the assumption I observed to him that what
was meant & objected to was that it increased the debt of the general
govmt and carried it beyond the possibility of paiment. That if the
balances had been settled & the debtor states directed to pay their
deficiencies to the creditor states, they would have done it easily,
and by resources of taxation in their power, and acceptable to the
people, by a direct tax in the South, & an excise in the North.
Still he said it would be paid by the people. Finding him really
approving the treasury system I avoided entering into argument with
him on those points.
Bladensbg. Oct. 1. This morning at Mt Vernon I had the
following conversation with the President. He opened it by
expressing his regret at the resolution in which I appeared so fixed
in the lre I had written him of retiring from public affairs. He
said that he should be extremely sorry that I should do it as long as
he was in office, and that he could not see where he should find
another character to fill my office. That as yet he was quite
undecided whether to retire in March or not. His inclinations led
him strongly to do it. Nobody disliked more the ceremonies of his
office, and he had not the least taste or gratification in the
execution of it's functions. That he was happy at home alone, and
that his presence there was now peculiarly called for by the
situation of Majr Washington whom he thought irrecoverable & should
he get well he would remove into another part of the country which
might better agree with him. That he did not believe his presence
necessary: that there were other characters who would do the business
as well or better. Still however if his aid was thought necessary to
save the cause to which he had devoted his life principally he would
make the sacrifice of a longer continuance. That he therefore
reserved himself for future decision, as his declaration would be in
time if made a month before the day of election. He had desired Mr.
Lear to find out from conversation, without appearing to make the
inquiry, whether any other person would be desired by any body. He
had informed him he judged from conversations that it was the
universal desire he should continue, & the expectation that those who
expressed a doubt of his continuance did it in the language of
apprehension, and not of desire. But this, says he, is only from the
north, it may be very different in the South. I thought this meant
as an opening to me to say what was the sentiment in the South from
which quarter I came. I told him that as far as I knew there was but
one voice there which was for his continuance. That as to myself I
had ever preferred the pursuits of private life to those of public,
which had nothing in them agreeable to me. I explained to him the
circumstances of the war which had first called me into public life,
and those following the war which had called me from a retirement on
which I had determd. That I had constantly kept my eye on my own
home, and could no longer refrain from returning to it. As to
himself his presence was important, that he was the only man in the
U.S. who possessed the confidce of the whole, that govmt was founded
in opinion & confidence, and that the longer he remained, the
stronger would become the habits of the people in submitting to the
govmt. & in thinking it a thing to be maintained. That there was no
other person who would be thought anything more than the head of a
party. He then expressed his concern at the difference which he
found to subsist between the Sec. of the Treasury & myself, of which
he said he had not been aware. He knew indeed that there was a
marked difference in our political sentiments, but he had never
suspected it had gone so far in producing a personal difference, and
he wished he could be the mediator to put an end to it. That he
thought it important to preserve the check of my opinions in the
administration in order to keep things in their proper channel &
prevent them from going too far. That as to the idea of transforming
this govt into a monarchy he did not believe there were ten men in
the U.S. whose opinions were worth attention who entertained such a
thought. I told him there were many more than he imagined. I
recalled to his memory a dispute at his own table a little before we
left Philada, between Genl. Schuyler on one side & Pinkney & myself
on the other, wherein the former maintained the position that
hereditary descent was as likely to produce good magistrates as
election. I told him that tho' the people were sound, there were a
numerous sect who had monarchy in contempln. That the Secy of the
Treasury was one of these. That I had heard him say that this
constitution was a shilly shally thing of mere milk & water, which
could not last, & was only good as a step to something better. That
when we reflected that he had endeavored in the convention to make an
English constn of it, and when failing in that we saw all his
measures tending to bring it to the same thing it was natural for us
to be jealous: and particular when we saw that these measures had
established corruption in the legislature, where there was a squadron
devoted to the nod of the treasury, doing whatever he had directed &
ready to do what he should direct. That if the equilibrium of the
three great bodies Legislative, Executive, & judiciary could be
preserved, if the Legislature could be kept independant, I should
never fear the result of such a government but that I could not but
be uneasy when I saw that the Executive had swallowed up the
legislative branch. He said that as to that interested spirit in the
legislature, it was what could not be avoided in any government,
unless we were to exclude particular descriptions of men, such as the
holders of the funds from all office. I told him there was great
difference between the little accidental schemes of self interest
which would take place in every body of men & influence their votes,
and a regular system for forming a corps of interested persons who
should be steadily at the orders of the Treasury. He touched on the
merits of the funding system, observed that there was a difference of
opinion about it some thinking it very bad, others very good. That
experience was the only criterion of right which he knew & this alone
would decide which opn was right. That for himself he had seen our
affairs desperate & our credit lost, and that this was in a sudden &
extraordinary degree raised to the highest pitch. I told him all
that was ever necessary to establish our credit, was an efficient
govmt & an honest one declaring it would sacredly pay our debts,
laying taxes for this purpose & applying them to it. I avoided going
further into the subject. He finished by another exhortation to me
not to decide too positively on retirement, & here we were called to
breakfast.
Feb. 7. 1793. I waited on the President with letters & papers
from Lisbo...
[Next page]